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The Sales Warrior Within | Season 2 Episode 26 – Storytelling: A Conversation with Expert Jude Charles
Andy Olen is a Sales & Leadership Trainer and High-Performance Coach. Andy works with talented salespeople, business teams, and leaders who seek empowerment, improvement, and insight. Andy’s clients strive to be the best in class.
“Good Selling, Good Leading, Good Living.” – Andy Olen
Storytelling: A Conversation with Expert Jude Charles
- Andy Olen welcomes storytelling expert and guru, Jude Charles to the show
- Jude helps entrepreneurs, companies, and celebrities share their stories through video
- Andy and Jude unpack why storytelling is vital for salespeople, entrepreneurs, and everyone looking to connect and create a lasting impression
- Jude describes simple best practices on how to build a story
- Learn more about creating a Story Bank: go-to stories that you can inventory, practice, and deploy to share with others who you are
- Jude and Andy agree in the show that stories are great ways to overcome objections from customers
- Jude shares stories of his life, experiences, and career throughout the podcast, making this an engaging, connecting and motivating listen
- Connect with Jude, and subscribe to his letter using the links below.
| 00:02 | There’s a sales warrior within each of us. My name is Andy Olen, and I’m here to help you discover and empower the Sales Warrior Within. Hello and welcome to the Sales Warrior Within podcast. This is Andy Olen. I am super excited to welcome Jude Charles to the podcast. Today, Jude helps entrepreneurs bring their stories to life through video.
| 00:28 | And he’s produced stories for a lot of great companies and a lot of really cool people, including Google, Coldwell Banker, and also Steve Harvey and others. He is a wonderful storyteller. You’re going to love this conversation. One, because you’re going to hear some amazing stories from Jude. Two, you’re going to hear his best practices on how to build a story bank, how to express stories, how to structure stories, and how to be confident in telling stories as well.
| 00:59 | As we’ve talked a lot about on The Sales Warrior Within, it’s all about connecting with customers. It’s about building trust and great relationships. Stories can help you do that. To learn more about https://judecharles.co/, check out his website, https://judecharles.co/newsletter, and also check out his newsletter, Jude Charles newsletter. All of his links and information will be also in the show notes. So without further ado, let’s start the conversation with Jude Charles.
| 01:30 | Jude Charles, welcome to The Sales Warrior Within podcast. It’s great to have you, Andy. Thank you for having me. I’m looking forward to geek out about storytelling today, so yeah, definitely excited to be here. Me too. I like to say to people, if I have a chance to share a story with someone, it’s a great day. It’s an even better day if I hear someone else’s story. So really happy to be talking with you. I had a chance to briefly introduce you to the audience just before we started here. Share a little bit about your story, share with the audience who you are, what you do, and tell us your story.
| 02:01 | Yeah, I was always a curious kid when I was younger. I was very curious about what my future life would look like. So instead of being the kid that would play outside, play basketball or football, or even play video games, I wrote books, 100 page books about what I thought my future life would look like. So I wrote The Police Life of Jew. Charles was one book. I wrote another book called From Boyhood to Manhood, another book called The Baseball Life of Jude Charles and all.
| 02:34 | I wrote eleven books. But then I got to high school and I had a TV production teacher, Mrs. zanily, who taught me everything she knew about video production. In my junior year, she pulled me to the front of the class and she was like, Jude, you’re really, really talented at video production. I think you should start a business. I’m the youngest of ten children. My father was a construction worker.
| 03:02 | My mom worked at a chair factory, so I didn’t have anybody in my family who were entrepreneurs. I didn’t even really know the word, if I’m honest with you. But the following day, May 5, 2006, mrs. Donnelly came into the classroom with a yellow envelope and handed it to me. And when I looked inside, it was my very first set of business cards, which I still have to this day. I still have it framed up.
| 03:28 | And so that is how I got started in video production and helping entrepreneurs, specifically entrepreneurs, tell their story, bring their stories to life. I create documentaries of entrepreneurs to think behind the scenes of their lives, who they are as a leader, who they are as a husband or wife, who they are as a parent. And I just bring that to life. I help people create and connect authentically with the people that they want to connect with. And so that’s what I’ve been doing the last 16 years.
| 03:59 | And I love it. That’s great. I want to go back to all the books that you wrote. I wrote one book, and I’m like, I don’t know if I can do it again. It’s like running a marathon, which I’ve done two of. I don’t know if I’ll ever do the third. But writing a 100 page book and you said that you did eleven of them, what motivated you to do that? And also, if you could, if you look back on that experience, do you go back and say, hey, I actually did a lot of this stuff. Maybe not the professional baseball player yet, but that you were able to realize or actualized some of the stories that you wrote about when you were a kid?
| 04:32 | I didn’t realize any of it, to be honest. So what’s funny is I have started to read those books lately, and I’m amazed at what I was writing about. It eight, nine years old. But no, I did not. So one book was about me creating a security firm and then becoming sheriff of my town. That didn’t happen. Like you mentioned, baseball didn’t happen. Well, it’s interesting. From Boyhood to Manhood. It was all about my friends that I had in elementary school. Most of us were still friends.
| 05:03 | I didn’t realize a lot of it. The only thing I can say, if I tried to massage a little bit, is that I became an entrepreneur, which I did write about in the book. I became an entrepreneur. I have no idea why I was fascinated by writing or writing stories of my future life. It’s funny because in my family, my uncle used to say all the time, she was going to be a lawyer. He writes so much, he’s just going to be a lawyer. But no, I didn’t end up being that either.
| 05:31 | So it’s fascinating. I think the one thing I will say, I wrote a book in 2020 that came out in 2022. And yes, it is very hard to write a book. I don’t know how I was doing that as a kid. But definitely it’s hard to write a book. Luckily, I was able to publish this book. I hadn’t published the books that I wrote as a kid, but I was able to publish this book. That’s great. And what’s the name of the book and where can people find it? The name of this book is called Dramatic Demonstration.
| 06:02 | It is a book that talks about how to bring your story to life. So I do this thing called a road Map and Strategy Session, and basically, this book walks you through that road mapping strategy session of how to not only know the right story to tell, bring it to life in visual form. Sometimes that means it on video, but other times that can mean talking on stage and how you bring it to life so that people are engaged with it. And then finally, how do you leverage that story?
| 06:28 | By telling it over and over and over again in your business, when you’re meeting with clients, or whatever it may be, how do you tell the story over and over? I will walk you through those three stages dramatic clarity, dramatic demonstration, and dramatic leverage. That’s the book that I wrote, but it was challenging because the book is broken down into three case studies, three clients that I worked with, and going back and forth between the client stories and really wanting to make this practical for everyday people to be able to tell their stories, to leverage their stories, that was the challenge.
| 07:02 | But luckily, I’ve gotten some good reception from it. And so, yeah, that’s the Dramatic Demonstration. You can get that through my website, https://judecharles.co/ , and you’ll see it on the front page there. Excellent. Let’s go back to the importance of storytelling. Let’s sort of set the foundation for the listeners. I’m a big advocate of storytelling in your experience, Jude, in working with a lot of entrepreneurs, business people, celebrities, others.
| 07:33 | Why is storytelling for all of us so important? Storytelling is the one thing that connects you to the other person that you may not know. Right. Who’s your favorite celebrity, andy favorite celebrity or even sport athletes? I think Lewis Hamilton, the Formula One racer I talk about a lot. Hero had a chance to meet, not to say hello to him as he scooted by me at the Montreal Canadian Grand Prix the other day.
| 08:03 | So Lewis Hamilton is way up there. Giannis Antetokounmpo. I have the Bobblehead behind me. So those two are two at the top right now. Why is Lewis one of your favorite sports athletes? No, just because of the person he is. That it’s not just what he does in the car and the seven time champion that he is and all of that racing history, it’s what he does when he’s not in the car.
| 08:32 | His advocacy for human rights, the struggles he’s gone through, even recently, some racist remarks sent his way and how he handles himself with grace and power at the same time in those really difficult moments. Just it’s like, wow, if we could emulate that. It’s unbelievable. And yet there’s this guy also in the paddock at races, walking his bulldog, roscoe around and just laughing and having fun with it.
| 09:03 | So what he seems to be is this all around person that is just someone we can all look up to and emulate. What you essentially said and everything that you just said there, which you’ve essentially said is because of Lewis Hamilton’s story, the experiences, the moments in time that you’ve been able to see of him that have made you a fan of his. It happens the very same way with the people that we choose to be friends with.
| 09:32 | We get to know their stories, right? The people that we decide to work with, the people that maybe you’re working for a great leader, but it’s because of the stories, the experiences, the moments. A story is all about a very specific moment in time. That’s what a story is. It’s a retelling of that very specific moment. And when you retell that specific moment, that’s what helps people connect with you. Right. That’s what helps them become a fan of who you are, not just the thing that you do.
| 10:03 | That’s why I love what you said about Lewis Hamilton. He’s a great champion, but it’s also about who he is. That’s what makes storytelling so powerful. Yeah. And it’s interesting that other than the quick scooter ride by and I said, Hey, Lewis, and he gave me just a nod and a very quick hello. That’s my only encounter with them. But yet I still have this full sort of robust picture and experience with him that just draws me in. And you’re absolutely right.
| 10:33 | It’s this collection of individual moments that sort of forms this tapestry. And that’s a really good exercise, actually, to use, like, hey, who do you look up to? Who is a role model? Why? And if you just listen to someone unpack that, they just unpack the story. And there’s probably very powerful learning and realization and connection that comes from that storytelling. Yeah. And you mentioned, like, how Lewis walks around the paddock with his bulldog. That’s a moment in time I could see.
| 11:02 | Right. Again, that’s what makes storytelling so powerful is the moment in time that you can see. You may not have been there with the person, but you can see it and you can experience it. You can go through the journey with them. When I wrote The Baseball Life of Jew Charles when I was a kid, it was because I had just read Jackie Robinson’s autobiography. I was like, Okay, he did this. He did all these amazing things and got through challenging moments.
| 11:30 | What would it look like for me as a young African American male to play in the baseball league today? Because he paid the way that allows me to be able to play today. What would that look like? Again, it’s through the stories. You ask me why storytelling important, why storytelling powerful. The stories are what connect us as human beings. When we hear someone’s story for good or bad, when we choose to make a decision on whether or not we’ll continue to connect with them, should people be shy about telling their own story and the reason?
| 12:05 | I’ll give you a little context behind the question. I work with the special operations community, so the Navy Seals and the Marine Raiders, and you can appreciate with that group that they are very tightly knit. It’s all about team. It’s not about me. However, when you leave that type of organization in that team environment, and then you move into a non military civilian type situation and you’re interviewing for a job, the hiring manager is going to say, Jude, tell me about you.
| 12:37 | So how do you get into that storytelling space where you’re able to tell your story and you don’t have to worry that it’s an ego thing or it’s a, wow, look at me, it’s a peacocking moment. I put up my feathers. How do you balance that? Because I would imagine a lot of people may be shy to share things about them and share a story about themselves. The clients that I work with are seven and eight figure clients. Sometimes celebrities. Like you mentioned, I’ve worked with Steve Harvey before, and oftentimes what they fear is the same fears.
| 13:09 | Like, am I being too braggadocious? Because where they are in their life, they have accomplished a lot of great things. Just like someone who works in the military, right? Hypothetically, a Navy Seal. He’s accomplished a lot of great things. He is at the top of the top. But you know that, and your teammates know that. But this person that’s sitting across is looking to hire you. They know nothing about you. And yes, you could say, hey, I’m a great person. You can trust me. But that’s just a statement.
| 13:39 | But if I bring you into a very specific moment in time, if I bring you into the moment in time, I just didn’t know what I would do. For example, July 2014, I traveled to Spokane, Washington. I live in South Florida, but I traveled to Spokane, Washington for a leadership conference.
| 14:01 | I always knew leadership was important to me, but I had this crazy idea coming back from the conference because Washington State is in the furthest northwest point and I live in the furthest southeast point of America, that I would take a Greyhound bus back home. Wow was not a good idea at all. Workout. It’s a three day trip. By day two, I was miserable.
| 14:29 | But I get to Chicago, Illinois, not too far from where you are. I get to Chicago. Day two, I turn back on my phone. I had my phone off the whole time. I turned back on my phone and I get a text message from my sister. And she said, Call me back. It’s urgent. Now, at this point, July 2014, I braced myself because I knew it was either mom or dad. Mom was suffering from depression and had attempted suicide before dad was diagnosed with prostate cancer.
| 15:00 | So I called my sister. She tells me they found dad in the house unresponsive. I know what that means. They won’t tell me that he’s passed away. But I take the first flight back home. My trip is cut short, luckily, and my brother comes to pick me up. He comes with his daughter, my niece. I hug my brother, we don’t say a word. I hug my niece. We don’t say a word. But on the drive back to my father’s house, I sit in the back seat with my niece, and I’m just staring off in space.
| 15:33 | Because at this point, I’m 25 years old, and I never imagined that I would lose my father at such a young age. My father was 74, but I was 25. And I’m thinking, okay, dad won’t get to see me get married. He won’t get to see me have kids. And then ayana my niece, I’m sitting in the back seat with his uncle. Why did Grandpa have to die? And I just stared at her, and she said it again, why did Grandpa have to die?
| 16:03 | She’s all over eight, nine years old, really doesn’t understand that the first person in her life that has died. The question rang in my ears. We’re doing funeral preparations as we’re planning out what to do with the house and things in the house and all everything that he had kept. But then on August 9, 2014, i, Jew Charles, the youngest of ten children, was asked to give my dad eulogy.
| 16:29 | And it’s in that moment that I didn’t just understand leadership was part of my purpose of leading through difficult moments or my mission today. To lead and empower entrepreneurs, to have relentless courage. To have courage when things are hard is what helped me understand who is Jude Charles. I tell that long run out of the story because it’s the same kind of story that you might tell. You may not tell it’s a bit of a sad story, so you may not tell that kind of a sad story.
| 16:59 | But when someone’s looking to ask when they’re asking you, who are you? Or Why should I hire you? Or what makes you different than any other person that’s out there, it’s a story that makes you different because we all have different experiences. We may have similar experiences, but they’re different. And that is why you lean into your story. Even when it’s difficult. You lean into your story because the person sitting across won’t really get to understand who you are without your story. And that’s why it’s important.
| 17:28 | That is why you lean into it, even when you’re getting to work with a team. Now that team understands how you can lead them through difficult moments. Right. So that’s what I would say to that person. Yeah, I think that’s great. That story was impactful because of the content, the way that you told it, and the lesson that you learned from it as well.
| 17:56 | And I think that last part is really important for people is that when you’re sharing a story, you’re sharing something about you. You’re providing an insight into how you’re wired, what your values are, how you approach great moments and tough moments, and don’t be afraid to go into that space. And then when you’re sort of concluding your story, share the learning.
| 18:22 | And usually what that learning is tapping into what I work with teams on is you got to find your superpower. Everyone has a superpower. And for those of us who have found that superpower and can nurture it and use it and exploit it, then there’s a lot of fulfillment in that. But go into that story and then ensure that you come out and say, hey, here’s what I learned. Here’s what I realized about me. And in essence, share what your superpower or set of superpowers are.
| 18:52 | And if it’s in an interview with someone, if you’re trying to persuade a customer to buy your technology or your product or your services, now they know who they’re buying from and they know if the values match between Andy and Jude, then we’re going to have a relationship here. So I think that’s A really powerful a story that you shared, and B how you concluded your story to talk about the lesson learned, that’s an important part of storytelling, isn’t it? Absolutely.
| 19:21 | The lesson that you learn that you took away because we can each take different lessons from different stories, but it’s the lesson that you learn that helps me understand who you are. The fact that I could choose to see that moment in time that I had to give my father’s eulogy as something bad, but I chose to see it as something good. Right. That’s why wrapping it up with the lesson is the most important piece.
| 19:51 | The moment in time. What did you learn from that moment in time? What did you take away from that moment in time? I won’t tell the full story, but there was another moment in time when my car got repossessed for the second time in eight months. And it was the same day that a client called to tell me she made $1 million from her business. Now, at the time that she called me to tell me that and my car was getting repossessed, I was struggling to make $20,000 a year. But I had a choice to make. Do I quit?
| 20:18 | Because here’s proof that I’m not as good, because the client is telling me she’s made a million dollars, I’m struggling to make $20,000. Or do I continue because my clients proving to me that there’s value in what I’ve created for her. I chose to continue. Obviously, that’s why I’m sitting here with you today, Andy. But it’s the lesson that I learned when I normally tell that story, the full, drawn out story, it’s the lesson that I learned that I had something valuable.
| 20:47 | It was serendipitous that this client was calling me at the same time, but it was meant for me to continue. It was meant for me to go through this difficult moment and realize, okay, I’ve got something valuable. I just need to learn how to do sales and marketing better. So, yes, the lesson is the most important piece. The lesson is what helps them understand who you are. But the story is what takes them on that journey to get there. And they make the decision on their own. Like I always tell someone when they’re looking to convince a client, to persuade a client to work with you, it’s not about you being the right choice.
| 21:17 | It’s about them making the right choice for themselves. And if you could help them do that, that’s what will make them trust you. Absolutely. And it’s a great example of that is the right kind of relationship a salesperson wants to build with a customer. Because one of the things I work with a lot of salespeople and sales teams on Jude is that there are very negative stereotypes out there about salespeople.
| 21:44 | The snake oil salesman, the horse trader, obviously the used car salesman, and what Hollywood has done with Leonardo DiCaprio and the Wolf of Wall Street or Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross and the ABCs of selling. We could go down the list for many hours. That great. Sales people often through, if not always through stories, are actually connecting with customers and are sharing what they think is best for that customer and allowing that customer, obviously, to make his or her own choice.
| 22:18 | And if that partnership works for both sides, they’re going to say yes, and they’re going to build something special together. I think there’s a lot of value in that. I don’t think that’s part of the negative sales stereotype at all. So salespeople, I encourage them through story, through examples, to think about their story as a salesperson very differently than the stereotypes that they battle every day. Think about the core values that you have. Part of the exercise that I do in road mapping is dramatic clarity, is understanding what your five top five core values are because you mentioned value.
| 22:51 | And I think what many people get confused with when it comes to not just storytelling, but core values, is that core values are just words, or values in general are just words with their words and statements, but with the story, they come to life. Right? So, like most people would say, we have integrity. Okay, great. But tell me about a moment in time where you had to lose money because you wanted to do the right thing.
| 23:21 | Which is what integrity is doing the right thing? Right. Or do you see integrity as something different? Tell me a story about that. So yes, when you’re looking to share the values that you have or share value in general, it is the story that you tell that is the value, not the thing. You don’t just give them tips as a value. You don’t even just tell them, hey, our core values, that we’re always going to do the right thing. No, you show them that. You tell them a story that helps to illustrate that point.
| 23:54 | Storytelling is one of those things that it works in every part of your business, whether it is the first time you are having a discovery call or you’re trying to close the deal. Stories help to make it happen because stories is what helps to change someone’s perspective and helps them to see what you want them to see. It’s the influence that you create. I’m passionate about it not just because it’s something that I do, obviously.
| 24:22 | I’m passionate because when I was a kid and I would write those stories because I wanted my life to look a certain way and there’s power in that too, right? But stories are just the it is ingrained in who we are as human beings. Absolutely. And team, just a reminder, you can find Jude at https://judecharles.co/ everything that he’s talking about, we’re talking about. He’s got a wonderful web page with wonderful video content as well.
| 24:51 | You’ll sort of see the magic of his clients stories really come off the screen. So go check them out at https://judecharles.co/ I share with people. I think you’d agree with this. And I was thinking about all the interviews that I’ve done with folks and you ask what is it about you that’s different? Like, well, I believe in integrity and I believe in success and I’m results driven. It’s like, okay, I should always followed up and maybe I did, maybe I didn’t all the time, but I would recommend for the audience listening, well, tell me a story about integrity.
| 25:23 | Tell me a story about that showcases your results driven attitude and approach. In terms of interviewing, are there any tips that you give to the interviewer? Maybe those are the tips that start extracting the stories from the people that you’re listening to and then that will help you evaluate their fit within your organization and also your ability being potentially their future manager of your relationship with that potential employee.
| 25:51 | Yeah, there’s one simple question that I think it’s going to be very easy to remember even if you’re listening to this while you’re walking or cycling or something. The question is tell me a moment in time when so tell me a moment in time when integrity, you had to have integrity. Tell me a moment in time when success was important.
| 26:16 | Tell me a moment in time when you were faced with a difficult moment, or let’s say, let’s make it practical. I’m going to come up with something on the top of my head. Let’s say you’re selling a product and you are, I don’t know, two weeks away from launching the product. You probably live in Wisconsin, but it was made in China. You’re two weeks away and you realize the labels were printed wrong.
| 26:49 | What do you do? But that’s a moment in time when tell me a very specific tell me a moment in time when x. Tell me a moment in time five, six words that really open up then and invite the person sitting across from you or on the zoom with you to tell a story.
| 27:17 | Is it important then that they tell a good story, a not so good story? How they answer that question, going back to interview type moments, or even salesperson customers. If a customer is asking a salesperson, what do you have to do in that moment to deliver a good story? What are some of your storytelling best practices? The first one are details. When you’re telling a story, I want you to set the scene. What is happening? What are you thinking, feeling and seeing in that moment?
| 27:48 | When I told you about Mrs. Donnelly giving me the yellow envelope, I didn’t have to necessarily say yellow envelope, but we generally know what a yellow envelope looks like. Or traveling back home from Spoken in Washington July 24. July 24. I had the month, but it’s the detail of the date and the time. Right.
| 28:17 | And so that’s the first thing. It’s details. The second thing is the challenge. What is it that was challenging in that moment? So in the moment with my father passing away, it’s a moment that I just didn’t plan for. I didn’t see it happening. I didn’t see it coming or even with Mrs. Donnelly. The challenge was I had no entrepreneurs in my family. She’s telling me to be an entrepreneur, but I don’t even know what that looks like. Right. And I mentioned that because the challenge doesn’t always have to be this big, gigantic, dramatic thing.
| 28:47 | It could be small. It could be as small as the unknown, or it could be as small as you just it’s not something you’re familiar with. Right? And then finally, the lesson. We’ve talked about the lesson already, but the lesson how you wrap up that story when someone is asking you, tell me a moment in time when you had to have integrity. You wrap it up with, okay, that was the moment time I had to have integrity. That way the person also knows you’re done with the story.
| 29:16 | But you’ve made your point in how you wrap up the story. Those are the three most important things of not necessarily telling a good story, but telling an effective story. Right. Because we are all storytellers. We tell stories every single day. When you get home from work, if you work not from home, but when you get home from work and your wife asks you, how was your day? Hey, here’s how my day was. And you go into the moment in time. Maybe someone did a really great job today.
| 29:46 | You go and you talk about how excited you are about the person that did a great job. That’s how you tell an effective story. I agree with you, and I’ve been more and more aware of the importance of details in stories as well. And I’m curious about your opinion on why the details are really important. But let me give you an example of a story I heard yesterday. Former professional hockey player was talking about how he got started in Minnesota and when he was playing.
| 30:15 | And he detailed the stories like, I grew up in the Rochester, Minnesota area, and there were three television stations, channel three, six and twelve. Channel three served this city, and he named the city six served this city, named the city twelve served that we had to get the antennas right in order to pick up the University of Minnesota Duluth hockey game on a Friday night. And it was Mr. So and So down the block. And I was thinking to myself, this is like 40 years ago, and he’s going through this.
| 30:43 | But I’m so drawn into that level of detail. Is it because that level of detail in the memory there means that it’s so important for him that I better be engaged because it’s going to be really valuable to listen to this is it. Care what are the details, in your opinion, doing for us? Jude that really bring us in and are probably, as we know, a heck of a lot of fun to share as well.
| 31:10 | The details transport you to that moment when he is sharing the three channels and how he has to fix the antenna. We don’t even have antennas anymore, right? But majority of us, even myself, I’m 33 years old as we’re recording this, and I can remember what it was like to have an antenna. So it brings me back to that moment in time. That’s why story is so powerful.
| 31:35 | It’s a moment in time, but when you start to tell the details of that moment in time, whether or not I was wearing a red shirt or I was wearing khaki pants and slippers, you can see that in order to put you right back into that moment in time. That’s why the details are incredibly important. When I give you the date, July 2014, where I tell you August 9, 2014, the day that I had to give the eulogy, like, I’m transporting, where were you in 2014?
| 32:06 | Or even like 911. When we say 911, we all have a different experience of where we were during 911. But it’s the details that bring us back to that moment. The date, the color, the feeling. What I love about what your friend did is that he was telling me everything he was seeing. There’s three things in detail thinking, feeling, or seeing, but he was telling you everything that he was seeing, which puts you right there into that moment.
| 32:40 | Yeah, I love it. And I encourage people I think you’d probably agree with this advice, especially salespeople and others that are in the business of persuasion, to continue to inventory your stories. Yes. When prompted, tell me about this time or tell me more about this moment in time where you experience this. They’re going to be able to, with that prompt, go into that space and be able to relive that moment.
| 33:10 | But sometimes it’s good to have a few stories on your tool belt and inventory those stories and even practice those stories as a salesperson, as a professional, someone again in the world of persuasion or of engagement with people and connection. And so one. Do you agree, Jude, that, yes, you should proactively take some time to gather your stories and think about them. Maybe write a 100 page book for each one, if appropriate.
| 33:39 | But definitely take some time to sit in and reflect yourself on what stories will I share the next time I’m in an important moment? Yes. I have a journal that I call my story bank journal. In that journal is where I’m writing stories of moments in time that have happened to me. It could be anything. It could be weird things. I happen to cycle. So I tell stories about cycling, maybe lessons that I’ve learned through cycling.
| 34:06 | Or it could be I had an Uber driver once who was also a musician, and I wrote that story down in my journal. But like you mentioned, Andy, having the stories, rehearsing the stories by writing them down, and then maybe saying it at a certain point in time is what helps me to get better at it. I call it a story bank because just in the same way you go to the bank and you deposit money, you can’t withdraw the money unless it’s deposited to your account.
| 34:35 | So in the same way, you can’t withdraw the story unless you’ve deposited it in your journal. And how I do that? I titled a story. So, like, the Uber story I remember it was I think it was Uber driver by Day, Musician by Night. And then you tell the story. You write down the very specific details of the story, what happened. You got in the car and this person was trying to play music for you so that you could hear their RMD song and the lesson that you learned.
| 35:06 | Right. You write that down. Sometimes a lesson may change their story that I’ve told before, and the lessons change based on what it is I’m looking to convey. But the story bank, yes, I agree with you 1000%. Writing down the stories over time you may not use the story right away, but specifically for the sales. What I love is that you’ll get objections throughout the sales process. Personally, I recommend answering objections with stories because there will be different stories.
| 35:38 | It’s not your own story, but client stories. Other people who have the same objection or other people who were worried about the same thing, they went through the journey, they bought the product or they bought the service, and then they had a good experience. But instead of just telling the person, oh, don’t worry about that, it’s going to be a good experience, you tell them a story of someone else who went through the same thing, you tell them the details. Maybe they were apprehensive about the amount of money it cost. Maybe they had spent money before on a different product and got a bad result.
| 36:09 | You tell them that story and you answer the objection with a story. But again, if you do your story bank, if you have a story bank, that is what allows you to do that. Couldn’t agree with that more. I love the idea. I call it the inventory or stories. I love the bank as well, with the deposits and withdrawals as well. If you’re going to withdraw a story, you better have had it deposited in the first place. In practice, I do think that’s important for salespeople.
| 36:33 | So your story isn’t when you’re given a minute by a customer, you have a story that’s tight within 30 seconds to a minute, and you’re not running on for ten minutes and never wrapping it up. And then also this great opportunity with stories to answer objections. I think you’re absolutely right, because an objection from a client could lead to a defensive posture from a salesperson that could create conflict.
| 37:01 | That’s never good in building a relationship, building trust. But hey, Jude, I hear what you’re saying, and you’re concerned about my product. Let me share the story of another client in a similar situation who also had this concern, and let me share with you how we resolve that and where they’re today. Oh, okay. And that’s, by the way, another big time persuasion is like, let me share a testimonial with you through story. And that’s how I’ll answer your objection. I think it’s a very elegant way to do it.
| 37:31 | You can only get into that place as a salesperson if you put stories into your story bank and work on that. So a piece of advice for the sales warriors out there is that if you have a good day, where a customer says to you, you know what? I had to rely on your product today, your service today, and it worked. Oh, why? What happened? Tell me about that. And then when you get in your car or you get off the call, write it down, put it in, as Jude said, in your bank, and come back to that, because that testimonial may get you out of a jam a little bit later on.
| 38:06 | Yeah, I love it. It’s exactly that. What I love that you said is ask the question. So someone may give you a compliment. They may tell you, hey, this worked really well. But why is that? When you’re asking why or you’re asking how, maybe even you’re asking for the details, right? And it’s the details that will help you when you’re entering the objection for that person, for the client that’s sitting right in front of you. Now you have the details. I don’t know, maybe there are a father who has three kids, right.
| 38:35 | And he’s saying how I wanted to use this product for my son, but he goes into the details of it. Right. Now you have this very specific moment in time that you can go back and tell the story. But yes, I love that you said that. It’s like ask the question. You’ve had a really great day, you’ve got a really great compliment. As a salesperson, ask the question why or how or what did you do? Right? Yeah. Tell me the story. Right. Bring the word story up.
| 39:04 | Because and I think we have to remember as a salesperson, when we’re engaging with others and getting to know that person, we all like to tell stories. This is fun to do. As I said earlier, a great day for me is being able to share a story and hear a story. So if you can prompt someone to share a story with you about their success or about something that made them happy or a great lesson that they learned, even if they went through something hard and are proud of their resilience, that’s going to be very connecting for them to share something personal.
| 39:33 | And for us, in terms of building trusting relationships with customers and others, that sets us well on our way. Jude, let’s transition a little bit to video. You are a master and a professional in capturing peoples and entrepreneurs and celebrity stories and putting into video. Why is videos so important? And how should people like sales people be thinking about maybe using video to help share their story as well?
| 40:02 | Yeah, through video, you’re able to see and feel free to different things. It’s hearing someone talk, it’s seeing their facial expression, the intimacy in their voices as well. Right. And that is what also helps you connect as they’re telling a story. But the third thing is, sometimes I’ll bring in props or like, if you’ve watched the video today, I held up the business card that Mrs. Donnelly first gave me. Right.
| 40:29 | That helps to make it tangible and to make it real in the same way that the hockey player, I think it was that talk about the antenna, right. He’s talking about he’s telling you the details, but sometimes you can bring those details in to the moment. Right. Let’s say you may have a product where you can do a demo. You film that and now you have the story. You have the demo in there and it’s filmed.
| 40:58 | But it allows you to use it over and over and over again, sometimes without you having to be there, right? Or even if you’re filming video of your client talking about the experience, that’s video that you can now leverage. And so that’s why I personally believe in video. It’s because it allows you to use it over and over again. It’s a sales tool. It’s another sales tool in a different format that allows you to use it over and over again. Maybe an email if you’re following up with a client that you haven’t heard from in a while.
| 41:26 | That’s why I believe sales people should be using video. It’s just another tangible thing that someone can see, they can hear you talking, they can experience what you would like for them to experience. But you could do that through video. Yes, and there are a lot of ways that sales people can access and use video without having it to be a huge time commitment or even a huge financial investment.
| 41:53 | So if it’s a social media video, all of our phones profit follow your lead here. We can turn the phone on ourselves and we can put a 15 2nd story on Instagram, we can put a TikTok together quickly, we can put a LinkedIn video together quickly. But there are other tools as well.
| 42:13 | And you mention email and do you like the idea of salespeople and professionals in a really important moment or in a critical relationship, not only writing an email, but recording a loom video, or recording a quick video that they embed in there so they can bring that email to life? Yes, because sometimes a person may not want to read the email if it’s a long one. So yes, I do encourage loom. I use loom or YouTube to record even myself to record videos.
| 42:42 | I’ll do it on my phone and I record myself and then attach the link just in case they don’t want to read it, they can watch it, right? And so yes, loom is, I think, the easiest to use, where you’re just literally sitting in front of your laptop, sitting in front of your computer, whatever it is, or even on your phone, because you can do it on your phone now too. You recorded, you say what you want to say. Sometimes you don’t even have text in the email, you just attach the loom video now they watch the video and they understand what it is that you may want to sell them. Certain things are conveyed better through video, in my opinion.
| 43:13 | You don’t always have to use it, but it’s available to you. Every phone, whether it’s iPhone or Android. They have great cameras today, there’s no arguing that. Still make use of it. It doesn’t have to be perfect. That’s the beautiful thing about using your phone. It doesn’t have to be perfect, but it conveys the point that you’re looking to convey and it persuades the person on the other side. Agreed. The challenge for the sales warriors out there that Jude and I will make to you is over the next week record.
| 43:43 | If you want to use Loom L-O-O-M it’s a great simple app and site and tool to use to record yourself and then get that recording out there in front of a customer. But send a recorded story, a quick story. Share with a customer. Hey, I just want to share the story of something that I think will be really important for you or that you would get a laugh out of based on our last conversation. Connect through video.
| 44:10 | But use the words I want to share a story with you at the beginning of your recorded video. So you’re forcing yourself to practice that and also signaling to that person on the other end. And if you’d like to start with a family member or friend to get some practice, that’s cool too. But try this medium and you’ll find, as Jude said, that it is easy and it is a great way to capture and bring to life your voice through storytelling. Yes, I’ll leave your audience at one last thing about that.
| 44:38 | With video, one thing I do in my business that has helped me tremendously is that I don’t just get testimonials at the end of the buying process. I get testimonials through every phase of the buying process. So different milestones. I happen to do a consulting session right before we work on an actual video project together. So right after the consulting session, I get a testimonial when we’re filming. I get a testimonial at the end of our filming process, and then I get another testimony once we’ve delivered the actual docu series.
| 45:09 | That’s what I do as documentary series. But I think sales people have the same thing. If you’re meeting with someone on a discovery meeting for the very first time and you’re doing a demo, get a testimonial about the value that you brought in that demo. Especially if the client is excited about the demo. Maybe they’re still on the fence, maybe they can’t make a decision yet, but at least they’re excited. You can capture them in that moment of excitement. That’s one last thing that video will help you do, especially because we talked about you have it on your cell phone when you go to a demo, you have it with you.
| 45:42 | You don’t need a professional film crew. There will be a time and place for that. But don’t lose the opportunities to continue to use video, to continue to tell stories. The testimonials the reason I give them a different milestones as I’ll do a case study at the end, but that tells the story too. I’ve now taken you on a journey from the very first moment I met this person to the moment we finished filming and maybe some apprehensions they had during filming. And then when they finally saw the finished product, that’s a journey that they’ve gone through.
| 46:12 | They can tell you the details of what they were thinking, what they were feeling, what they were seeing. So I want to leave your audience with that, especially in sales, when you’re looking to persuade someone to make the right choice for themselves, take them on the same journey that other people have been on, so they can go on that journey and understand all there is good at the end of this. It’s not just the finished testimonial final thing, like there’s all these moments in time that have happened.
| 46:40 | That’s wonderful advice and a wonderful way to enhance your sales process, enhance your, I’ll call it intimacy with your customer. And then they capture the feedback along the way. And I would also add to that if something doesn’t go well, by asking for the testimonial, especially when you recorded it, you’re going to get some good feedback so you can make the adjustment and get things back on track.
| 47:02 | But I would imagine by building Docuseries, that as you go through your process, there’s a big momentum play that’s happening, that it gets more and more exciting as each piece of the soon to be final product is coming together. I’ve filmed things before, and I always love the filming process and the capturing process, the production, and then you’re so excited to see after the edits are done and it all comes together with the music and the graphics and everything, it’s like, wow.
| 47:30 | So I would imagine in your business and with what you do, your testimonials, you can see the momentum and the story is just evolving very quickly. Absolutely. But I want to highlight something you said, Andy. Even when it doesn’t go right. There’s so much magic in that. Even when it doesn’t go right. I had a client who didn’t hire me, but I followed up with her. I think it was either two weeks or maybe a month after her event.
| 47:58 | She didn’t hire me, but I happened to follow up with clients anyway. And I asked her, Hey, how did it go? I just wanted to know, how did it go? Like, you hired someone else. I know that. So how did it go? Well, this is through text message. And she ended up texting me back saying, you know what? The event was amazing. But unfortunately, I found out on the third day, the videographer we hired, his camera malfunctioned on the first day, so he didn’t film anything.
| 48:25 | And I literally just served him papers that screenshot well, I took a screenshot that text message. I took a screenshot of the text message. I now use that. That’s one of the pieces I use in case someone is on the fence of whether or not to work with me, because no one wants that to happen to them, right? Yes, you had an amazing event. The person you brought there to document the event didn’t even have equipment working.
| 48:55 | Yes, you went with a cheaper option, but this is what happens when you go with the cheaper option. Right? And so that’s why I wanted to highlight the point that you made it even when it doesn’t go in your favor, where maybe you already have a client and something didn’t go all right, but still understanding what you can do better. Which is why I asked, hey, maybe he had a different process. Maybe there’s something I’m not thinking about on my end. When I’m speaking to clients, I want to know, why did you hire this guy versus me?
| 49:25 | Right? It just so happened that it was a bad option. But sometimes a client doesn’t hire me because they went with someone better. That’s okay, but at least I get to know that. So I think there’s a mastery level to what you just said there about like, even when it doesn’t go your way, don’t just look at the good. Look at what can you do better? Right? It’s the old adage, right? Or maybe not so old adage. Things don’t happen to you, they happen for you.
| 49:53 | And if your eyes are open, just realize, based on our conversation and our life experiences, that there’s also a story in there. There’s going to be a story to tell. You may not know it in that tough moment, but observe it. And then, as you said, think about it. Inventory. Put it in your story bank so you can use it for good later on. Jude Charles, it’s been a lot of fun. We could talk for hours on stories. We could go back and forth and tell stories all day long. And I am so grateful that you spend some time with the sales warrior community today.
| 50:25 | They will be better storytellers as a result of this. And again, team, and for all of you out there, https://judecharles.co/ go check it out. The docuseries, the book. Just get to know him and see what he’s done. It’s really impressive. Jude, thank you so much for being a guest on the show today. Andy it was a lot of fun, a lot of great stories that we shared, a lot of great content. The one last thing I’ll leave your audience with is that I do have a newsletter called the Dramatic Leverage Newsletter.
| 50:55 | That’s why I go really deep into how do you leverage story? The business side of storytelling. It’s not just learning how to tell the story, but then how do you leverage it? Like we talked about with testimonies and case studies or including it in an email. You can still find that on the same website, drew https://judecharles.co/newsletter. And we can connect that way as well. Fantastic, Jude, let’s keep telling our stories and thank you again for being on the show today. Thank you, Andy.