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The Sales Warrior Within | Season 2 Episode 35 – Guest Jeremy Miner Shares His Sales Wisdom
Andy Olen is a Sales & Leadership Trainer and High-Performance Coach. Andy works with talented salespeople, business teams, and leaders who seek empowerment, improvement, and insight. Andy’s clients strive to be the best in class.
“Good Selling, Good Leading, Good Living.” – Andy Olen
Guest Jeremy Miner Shares His Sales Wisdom
- Jeremy Miner joins the podcast for an engaging and dynamic discussion.
- Jeremy is a sales guru, author, podcaster, thought leader, and leads a high-end and fantastic sales training organization.
- We discuss important ways to “disarm” customers. ABD – Always Be Disarming.
- We talk about ways that salespeople can relate to customers in a challenging and dynamic environment.
- From selling door-to-door to guiding salespeople to excellence, Jeremy Miner brings a wealth of insight and experience that The Sales Warrior Within community will benefit from.
Get in touch with Andy Olen @ andyolen.com. Andy enjoys engaging with the Sales Warrior Community.
Date and Speakers:
Andy Olen and Jeremy Miner
| 00:02 | There’s a sales warrior within each of us. My name is Andy Olen and I’m here to help you discover and empower the sales warrior within. Sales warriors. This is Andy Olen. Welcome to another episode of The Sales Warrior Within podcast. I love talking to really smart people about selling and especially when people give advice that you’ll hear soon from my guest, Jeremy Miner.
| 00:34 | When people give advice that helps me become a better salesperson, I have uber respect for that. And there’s a lot that Jeremy shares in this podcast on sales excellence, sales approach, selling philosophy, and the mindset that you need to be a great salesperson in an arguably very dynamic and sometimes challenging market. There were many pieces of advice I’ve already put into and onto my sales tool belt. I’ve put it into action.
| 01:04 | I’ve been using his ideas and I’ve been finding success with his ideas too. So I can tell you firsthand that what he says you should listen closely to get out there and try it and I believe it’s going to work for you as well. Jeremy is a sales guru. He is the chairman of 7th Level, a global sales training company. It’s one of the top training companies and fastest growing companies in the United States. He’s just very high energy, he’s very savvy, he’s incredibly well researched and he’s been out there selling a lot.
| 01:37 | I mean, he started going door to door and learned how to do this really from knocking on doors, walking on the streets and getting after the sort of the gritty sales effort. And now he passes on the gems from his research, the gems from his training and experience. He’s an author, has a new book coming out called the New Model of Selling to An Unsellable Generation available for preorder now on Amazon. He’s also got a group on Facebook called the Sales Revolution.
| 02:08 | Facebook group. And you can check out his website at www.salesrevolution.pro. Enjoy my conversation in this high energy back and forth with sales expert, sales trainer all around sales guru Jeremy Miner. Jeremy Miner. Welcome to the sales warrior within podcast. It’s great to have you. Andy, thanks for having me on. It’s a bright early morning here. We got the sun blinding in my eyes, so if I look like St.
| 02:37 | Peter here in a second, everybody will know it’s not the lights in the office, it’s the magical sun over that it should go down here maybe ten or 15 minutes. That’s the what is that the Scottsdale sun coming up over the mountains? Scottsdale sun coming up, coming up over the mountains. And there’s a big building right in front of me and it’s like halfway, almost down over that building. Like little skyscraper. It’s like bam. Right here in my face. All good. That’s awesome. I’m in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, as you know, and I lament to my audience about the changes in season. We have to have this beautiful maple tree outside of my office and right now there is not a single leaf on it.
| 03:09 | The snow was falling yesterday. It’s a very different experience in Arizona. It’s why so many people from the upper Midwest want to come down and live where you live. Well, that’s what I see when I go out and meet people. They’re like, I’m from Minnesota or I’m from Milwaukee. Or I’m from Chicago. It’s like that little rust belt area. It’s like everybody just migrates out here to Arizona at least half the year in the winter. Sure, exactly. Western Florida or Arizona. And maybe unfortunately, after the hurricane hit, western Florida, arizona is going to even pop up more. So you may see more of us coming down your way.
| 03:38 | But it’s great to have you on the show. If you could. I gave in the intro to the show a little bit of detail about you, but I’d love for you to fill in the blanks on who you are, what you do, what you’re passionate about. Well, I’ll give you kind of a brief overview so I don’t bore everybody to death. But I got started in sales, which is 20, 21, 22 years ago, and that old, and started off as a broke, burned out college student, got hired as a commission only sales job. Right. One of those type of deals, selling alarm systems, door to door.
| 04:09 | I think I was 21, 22 somewhere in that range and got the scripts from the company and some books, some books behind me, you can see my bookshelf. You’re watching the video besides the sun from what I call the old sales gurus. And basically the company’s like, hey, go make some sales. It will be easy, right? Like just be excited. Tell them how excited you are, enthusiastic and they’ll just magically be excited and invite you in the home. And from the very first door I knocked on, I quickly found out that none of that was really accurate, none of that was really true.
| 04:40 | In fact, the more excited I was talking with my prospects, I’m not talking about being negative or boring, but the more turned off they became. And they would always give me objections like, we don’t need it, we can’t afford it. We already talked with somebody from your company last month. We don’t have the budget. I need to talk with a spouse. I need to think it over. I need to do more research. Can you call me back in a week, a month, a year later? And I think after about seven or eight weeks of all that nonstop rejection, barely making any sales, straight commission, you don’t make any sales, you don’t make any money.
| 05:12 | Right? There’s like no salary there or anything. And I got to a point that I saw and maybe some of your audience listening to me right now, watching me, has gotten to this point when they started that maybe selling just wasn’t for me, right? And I remember the sales manager picked me up in the van that night, as you do in doortodoor sales, and he popped in this CD. You know, 20 years ago, people listened things called CDs, and there was a CD by Tony Robins. Have everybody’s ever heard of Tony Robbins?
| 05:40 | And Tony said something that really kind of got me on the right path and I might be butchering what he said. But he said something like, to the fact that you will fail if you don’t learn the right skills that are necessary to succeed. Like, you will fail if you don’t learn the right skills. Now, he actually went on to say, everybody’s taught skills pretty much in every profession. But he said the people who fail are the ones who were not taught the right ones.
| 06:06 | And it’s like something that came up, it was like a sudden right in my face or like this light bulb moment that maybe what the company was training, maybe what I was learning from the, quoteunquote, sales gurus, maybe they just weren’t the right skills. Maybe they just were outdated. Maybe they didn’t work that well anymore, right? And that kind of took me on this life path of learning why the human brain makes decisions to go up or down, left or right. And my background in college at that time was behavioral science and human psychology, which is really, you know, you take out the science part, it’s really the study of decision making.
| 06:41 | Like, why does a human being behave a certain way? Why do they say yes or they say no? Right? Which is really sales and persuasion. And my professors, the people I was learning from, like Robert Caldini and Daniel Pink, and there was a very famous professor of sociology from NYU, adam Levon or something, I can’t remember. But they were teaching me that the most persuasive way to communicate was over here. But like, all these books behind me on the shelf from the gurus, they were saying it was over here. They were like completely polar opposites.
| 07:10 | I’m like, this doesn’t make any sense. They’re like, push, push, push. Professors are like, no, get them to pull you in. So I started learning techniques. So I was like, how do I take behavioral science, this theory, from what I’m learning, and put that into my sales process? And that’s what I did. And I started learning how to use techniques that work with human behavior that actually trigger curiosity, that trigger engagement. That triggered my prospects to want to pull me in. And selling automatically became very, very easy and very, very profitable.
| 07:40 | I went on to have a very, somewhat say, successful 17 year sales career. I retired for about a year and a half and then got off the bench again and started 7th Level, which is a global sales training company, about four years ago. Since then, we’ve gone pretty rapidly. That’s great. And so I wanted to go and double click into the push poll a little bit that you talked about. So a lot of the books behind you, written by very smart people who’ve done a lot of research, suggest for salespeople to push in and then give techniques and give advice and show the research on how the numbers game.
| 08:13 | Just push, push, push. Get as many as you can to get a few. Yeses. That way, just you’re losing a lot of people that you could be getting. And so as you look then at the opposite side of that, the ying to the yang, if you will, the pull approach. What are some things that you can share, some best practices or a mindset shift that salespeople can take to actually get into some exercises and some great habits on pulling customers, bringing them into their arena?
| 08:42 | Well, the first thing you have to learn is, as a salesperson, especially as the economy contracts, right? Because maybe when the economy is much better and people have more money, they’re not as skeptical, they’re not as cautious, whereas I would say they actually still are, but they have a little bit more risk tolerance. But as the economy contracts, companies you’re talking to, Cleveland executives you’re talking to, if you sell BTC, people you’re talking to, they want to hold on to their money because they’re uncertain of what’s happening.
| 09:11 | So any lay down sales you have now are going to be chopped probably by 70, 80%, and it’s going to be much harder to sell. So any shortcoming in your sales teams or your sales ability during times of economic contraction will only be magnified by ten fold, and it’ll be much harder to sell. So you, as a sales professional, have to learn how to get your prospects to let their guard down. You have to learn how to what we call disarm them instead of following the ABCs of closing.
| 09:41 | Everybody’s heard that, right? We want to follow the ABDs of selling that stands for Always be disarming. So from the first words out of your mouth, the first questions that you’re asking to the middle part of your sales process to the very end, you’re continually asking different questions with the right tone. It’s probably the most important that trigger the prospect to go below the surface and tell you the truth of what is really going on.
| 10:06 | And one thing that I think a lot of us gives me kind of a sneak peek with my background in behavioral science is that the way the human brain works. Let’s say that you’re in any sales conversation known to man. Let’s say if you’re on the doorstep or if you’re in a boardroom, or if you’re in a home or on zoom or on the phone, it doesn’t really matter. Within that first seven to 12 seconds of any conversation you’re in, your prospect is subconsciously picking up on social cues from you.
| 10:35 | Okay? So as you know, like, when you go to an event, Andy, and you’re sitting there, somebody comes up and talks to you, you automatically start it’s like your brain goes into, like, terminator mode, and you’re like, is this person a threat? Are they good for me? It’s subconsciously just in our brains. It’s just the way it’s our reptilian part of the brains that they talk about. It’s defense mechanisms that come from thousands or even millions of years ago. We were trying to protect ourselves from, like, tigers and serpents and stuff. Right now, we’re trying to protect ourselves from people trying to sell us something.
| 11:05 | So automatically, your prospects are picking up on your verbal and nonverbal cues based on your tonality and what you’re saying and or asking that triggers their brain to react in one of two ways. Now, that’s scary. As a salesperson, if we don’t understand that something we say here could cause them to react this way or react in a negative way. So we want to understand that. So if we come across aggressive in our conversations, if we come across needy everybody knows what I mean by needy, right? I mean, you can feel when you’re needy when you’re on a sales call.
| 11:35 | And if you come across especially attached, that’s the key word. You don’t understand the right questions to ask. You don’t understand the tone. It triggers the brain to go into what’s called fight or flight mode. And that’s why when you get on sales calls, the prospects are like, hey, you know, I’m just too busy right now. Can you call me back later? Or you know what? After second thought, I don’t think we need it. Or you know what? I don’t have time for all these questions. Just tell me how much it’s going to cost, and I’ll tell you if I’m interested or I’m kind of busy right now. Can you just email me a quote and I’ll get back to you?
| 12:05 | If we want it? That’s because you’re triggering fight or flight mode right now. Once we learn what we call any PQ neuro emotional persuasion questions, we learn how to come across in the conversations more neutral, like unbiased. Like we’re not quite sure if we can even help yet. You’re not saying it exactly like that, but we come across in that manner. We come across more collective. We come across more detached. That’s really the key. We understand the right questions to ask. We understand the right tone in certain situations.
| 12:34 | Is it more of a concern tone? Is it more of a skeptical tone? Is it more of a curious tone? Okay, what that happens, what it does is it triggers the brain to become curious enough where the other human being wants to engage with this. They’re open to having a conversation because they feel like they don’t know what it is yet, but they feel like we might have something important to them. So we have to learn as sales professionals how to become what we say, detached from the expectations of making the sale and instead focus on whether or not we can help this prospect.
| 13:04 | Okay, what problems do they have? How can we help them now? Do I mean, when you get in sales interactions, it’s not your goal to move the sale forward or to make a sale well, obviously hell no, right? Your goal is to make a sale on every conversation or to move it forward to that thing. But you have to keep that to yourself. You have to keep that internal because the moment your prospects feel like they are being sold to is the moment they do what they emotionally shut down. And even the very best questions you ask, they just stay surface level with you. And then at the end, let me think it over. I need to do more research.
| 13:34 | I need to keep looking around. That’s because you’re keeping them surface level by the way you’re communicating. You with me on that? I am. And I’m reflecting on even I think you said seven to 8 seconds and we form that first impression. I’ve even seen research and I share with teams. It may be as fast as 4 seconds and it’s really literally within that. Hello, Jeremy, my name is Andy and it’s great to meet you. How are you today? Having those lines and that body language and making that connection because a customer is going to do that quick evaluation, as you said, subconsciously.
| 14:07 | And it’s either a I feel good or I don’t feel so good. And a salesperson can literally be on the outside looking in in those first four to 10 seconds. It’s so true. Especially what you just said there. Hit home. If you say the same things that every salesperson that calls them every day is saying, what do you think the brain is going to do? It automatically triggers the wall of defensiveness. Like the wall comes out, you’re like, Hi, my name is. I’m with XYZ Company. How are you doing today?
| 14:36 | Well, first of all, your prospects know that you’re generally not interested in how their damn day is going. Let’s just be real, right? Everybody knows that. Now, I’ve had a few people like, no, I really do care about how their day is going. Okay, well, that’s fine for you, but your prospects don’t believe that because why? Because every salesperson has ever tried to sell them anything from a vacuum cleaner to a car to a house to cybersecurity at their company, whatever it is says, how are you doing today? So it automatically brings up like, salesperson trying to sell me something.
| 15:07 | Okay, so we want to avoid words that every salesperson always uses. For maybe a few examples of how to disarm a prospect. I’ll give you a couple of different scenarios. Let’s say you’re in a boardroom. You’ve already talked with a couple of the decision makers now you’re meeting with the board. There’s eight people in there, so let’s say there’s five or six that you even have not even had a conversation with. OK. And let’s say one pipes up.
| 15:33 | They’re like the cocky one of the bunch, and they’re like, hey, well, before you get into your pitch, whatever they say before you get into your presentation, we already have a company that we use for this, like, why should we go with you? Right. I had that when I was in BTB sales, and sometimes they didn’t have a boardroom. Sometimes you’d have that person there. Absolutely. Now, what would most salespeople do? Well, the reason why you should go with this is because of X and because of Y and because of Z, because we have the best this and we have the best that, which, by the way, doesn’t every single salesperson say they have the best product or service, right?
| 16:06 | So everybody does it. Nobody says, like, yes, we have the fifth best service in the market. So because you’re saying the same things that they’re used to, they just automatically it just triggers them to shut down even more. So what we want to do is, how do we disarm this prospect where they want to engage back, okay, so we want to say something like this. Why should we go through we already use a vendor for that. Well, I’m not quite sure that you should yet.
| 16:32 | We’d have to understand a little bit more about what you guys are doing with X and Y and Z, kind of the results you’ve been getting from that, just to see if we can even help, because maybe you’re better off staying with who you already have. Are you with me? Now, when you see something like that, I want you to watch how your prospect reacts. They’re like, oh, okay. They’re just gone. They just lean in. Because, see, an expert would say that, like a trusted authority, somebody who doesn’t need the sale, because they already have lots of clients. They’ve helped tons of people.
| 17:01 | A salesperson has to defend themselves on why they’re right, because they don’t they’re not an expert. They don’t have that. And you want to come across as more of an expert, a trusted authority, rather than coming across as just another salesperson trying to stuff the solution down their throat. No, it’s great, Jeremy and it reminds me of a good friend of mine is a mortgage broker, and he will often get that kind of objection early on in a new client engagement, especially now, where, hey, I can get a quarter point better rate from such and such bank.
| 17:31 | And Jeff’s comment is, yes, you probably will. And he just waits, and he just disarms it to your point. He disarms the objection immediately, and then he’s able to once the customer leans in, they react to that. He sees that he has them engaged. He’s able to talk about why that is informed and then he’s able to transition to and here are some of the things that we can provide and ultimately they see a quarter point based on what Jeff can provide is actually worth it’s worth the premium to work with.
| 18:03 | So what he did is he disarmed them. So it’s a pattern. Erupt, so he disarmed them, they let their guard down and then they become more open to what he’s suggesting after that. Because I would say even after that, well, it just depends on what type of result you’re wanting. Right. And that even kind of triggers them like results. What do you mean? Right. So you can really do that with anything that you sell for sure. So it’s always about disarming the prospect, getting them to let their guard down. Because if you can’t get them to let their guard down and they stay surfacelove with you the whole time, you know exactly what objections you’re going to get at the end and then you’re in chase mode.
| 18:34 | And it’s such a hard and unpredictable way to make a living when you don’t have to do that. Just making it harder than it has to be. Absolutely. So as we look at 2023 and you zoom out to sort of the macro world that salespeople are selling into, interest rates have quadrupled from 1% just towards the middle of the pandemic, up the ten year rates over around four now. So interest that business owners are paying on their loans has gone up.
| 19:05 | Inflation, the cost of inputs are up. And so to your point earlier, this is a challenging environment. What does sales people have to work on and be ready for as they engage in this much different environment? What skills do they need to really focus on and be razor sharp with? Well, the skills you have to learn is how to become what we call a problem finder. Okay? Now, every book behind me on the shelf will say you have to be really, really good at solving problems.
| 19:34 | Everybody’s heard that for like 60 years. You have to be a problem solver. Okay? That is true. However, until the prospect buys from you, you’re not really a problem solver. You can’t solve their problems until they purchase what you’re offering. I mean, let’s just be realistic, right? Like you can’t be really a problem solver without them first purchasing what you’re offering because that’s when you can solve the problem. You can’t solve it before they don’t buy. You can’t become a problem solver. So you have to be even better at problem finding.
| 20:02 | Now, what that means is asking the right questions at the right time in that conversation that trigger the prospect to find more problems in their own mind that they didn’t even know they had. And one thing that we always had to be very careful of, because I see it in so many consultative selling books, is that you have to sell to the needs of the client. Okay, well, that’s somewhat true, but the problem is that your clients don’t really know what they need when you first start talking to them. Let’s be real, right? Like Steve Jobs says, people don’t know what they even want.
| 20:32 | They don’t know what their problems are. They don’t know what they need. So it’s your ability to help them find out. Like, I’ll give you an analogy like this. Let’s say that you wake up this morning and you have a really massive migraine and you’re like, oh my gosh, my head hurts so bad. I need to go to urgent care and get some medication to get rid of this migraine, because that’s what you think you need. So you go into the doctor and you say, hey doctor, I need some migraine medication for my head. And the doctor doesn’t even ask you anything about it.
| 21:02 | It’s like, here you go, prescribes the saying and then off you go, right? So that’s what most sales people do, which is very unfair for the prospect. But however, let’s say that the doctor is obviously a lot smarter than that and they ask additional questions about the pain and how long they pain and what the pain feels like, what the pain is preventing them from being able to do. And the doctors questions trigger the prospect or the patient to start thinking that maybe they have a much bigger problem than they originally thought they had.
| 21:33 | And oh, by the way, the doctor, she suggests that they might need to do a Cat scan of the brain. They do a Cat scan of the brain, it comes back, they have a terminal tumor. And not only that, if you don’t have the surgery, that’s $3 million. You’re probably going to pass away in about two months. What, you thought you only needed some headache medication that was going to cost you $50. That’s what your budget was. But now you realize that your insurance is only going to COVID 80%. You’re going to have to pay $400,000. Well, the hell with the budget.
| 22:02 | Now you’re going out and you’re finding more funds to pay this because now because of the doctor’s questionability, it allowed you to see that you have much bigger problems than you originally thought you had. That’s why when salespeople get into like a discovery call and within the first five minutes they’re saying, what’s your budget for this type of project? How would they even know what their budget is going to be when they don’t even know what problems they have yet? So all you’re doing is short circuit. You’re short changing them and yourself because you’re like, oh, we’ve got 1000.
| 22:32 | And now the whole time you’re like, OK, I’m only going to sell this because they have $100,000 budget. But if you would just brought out more pain and help them relive the pain and build a gap from where they are, we call that their current situation or current state compared to where they want to be, their objective state. What’s the gap in between all these new found problems that your advanced question ability has now allowed them to see? They have they didn’t understand they had when you first got in that call with you. Now they see like, oh, my gosh. We have not just this one problem we thought we had, but we have two or three, or if these four other problems now we need 500,000 for the budget.
| 23:04 | And now you’re selling them something that’s 500,000 instead of 100,000, because you’re selling to the real problems that you help them find, not to what they thought they needed in the first part of that call. So you’ll be really good at problem finding. Yeah. And it goes back to that human interaction where even if you make that good first impression, if your initial questions are probing at things where that customer doesn’t have an answer yet, hasn’t thought about it, I believe that’s a trigger to send the wall back up.
| 23:33 | It’s like, wait, I don’t want to get into that space today. I don’t want to go into that problem. Said it’s Monday morning, I’m not ready for that yet. And then very quickly the wall can come up, the defense mechanisms can come back. And so I can really appreciate how a salesperson has to be purposeful in their questions, has to be thoughtful and continue this disarming until there’s a rapport, there’s a real back and forth. I mean you’re always disarming. Even when they’re sending the funds into the bank account, it’s always continually disarming.
| 24:04 | So even changing some of the lingo you use is disarming. Instead of saying, hey, I need you to sign this contract, just change the wording around to authorize the agreement. Okay? The next step is we just have you authorize the agreement that gives us permission to come in and X, Y and Z repeat back what they said they wanted. Okay, so it’s just changing some of your wording which doesn’t trigger sales resistance because like I said, words that trigger sales resistance. Hey John, it’s Jeremy.
| 24:34 | I know we talked a couple of months ago. I’m just checking in or I’m just following up. Well, here’s the problem with that. Every prospect sees emails every day and get phone calls every day from sales people just checking in or just following up. So those are words you might as well be saying in the prospects mind. Here’s what they’re thinking, that you’re just calling to get my money. That’s what they’re thinking. When you use words like checking in, following up, because everybody says it, so it automatically associates salespeople trying to sell me something.
| 25:04 | So instead I’m going to relangage it to hey John, I know we talked a couple of months ago and we were going to talk again. I just had time to get back to you. Okay? That implies that. You’re a busy person, you’ve got lots of clients. It’s more of like you’re an expert, you’re not checking in or following up, which just lowers your status as a salesperson. Yes, the criticality of the word selection for salespeople, especially in this tougher environment, I think the great salespeople will be very purposeful and thoughtful with the word selection.
| 25:32 | I’ve always trained salespeople and certainly when I managed them when I was in corporate America was when you’re having a business review with a customer. So this would be post sale implementation time and maybe you’re looking to continue to expand. When you’re doing a business review, don’t tell them how much revenue they’ve given you. Yeah, that’s lingo within the walls of your company. They’re making an investment. Their investment so far this year is this and here’s the goodness or the return that’s been created thus far.
| 26:04 | So it’s not revenue that they’re giving you. They’re giving you actually something down below revenue on the income statement, a cost or a cost of goods sold or operating expense, but it’s their investment in you. So that purposeful word selection I’m sure will be a differentiator for very strong in the result to everything that you say in the questions you’re asking. You have to tie in the end result to what they want and that gets the prospect thinking results based on thinking over price or cost based thinking.
| 26:31 | Because if you keep the prospect thinking price or cost instead of the end result, they’re always going to try to negotiate you down or they’re going to go with the cheapest provider and it’s just I don’t understand. So when you get on a sales call, let’s say if it’s an inbound lead and I don’t know, I’ll give an industry specific example. Let’s say that you sell business consulting, I don’t know, they just throw something out there and you help SMB type of businesses expand. Maybe you help with the processes and systems and operations. So when you get on the call that says they’re on Zoom, hey, can you hear me?
| 27:02 | Blah, blah, blah blah. Okay, so you look down your nose, okay, so it looks like you had booked on the counter about looking at possible outside help with your systems and your operations to really grow and scale the business. Right, see, I’m already applying the end result to why they even responded, why they’re even on and that automatically from the very first question I ask gives the prospect thinking results based thinking over price or cost based thinking. Exactly. So Those are type of questions that get them thinking.
| 27:33 | That from the very first words out of my mouth and they’re like yeah, that’s right. Pretty basic it is. We got into a little bit of closing or trying to land the deal. I’ll throw scenario out at you. Let’s say you have a very good client, a customer. They’ve been investing in your business, your product or service for some time. And we all know that a portfolio for a salesperson is made up of prospects and creating new business, especially in a B to B environment, and then also harvesting and bringing more forward from your existing clients.
| 28:04 | Let’s say it’s the latter scenario, existing clients and you’re looking to lock in some new opportunities with them, expand your footprint there and you’re working towards the close. You have the relationship set up. You have proven that you can create value in that situation. How do you advance your sales agenda and move and rotate towards a close once you’ve already have that relationship equity built in?
| 28:33 | What you talk about from the start of the car, the middle part, the end probably towards the end towards I wanted to focus in on the closing because the problem that I run into with a lot of the sales teams I work with is the closing. It’s taboo that feels like I don’t want to ask for the business, I feel uncomfortable doing that. And when I worked in politics, the cardinal sin of any politician is to fail to ask for the vote at some point that do I have the confidence and have I earned your vote? Right? That question that close has to be made.
| 29:04 | But salespeople often avoid that. They think it’s conflict or they’re afraid of the answer, potentially. So within existing business where you have an established relationship based on your methodology, what are some best practices folks can use? Committing questions? We don’t like the word closing per se with what we do because closing is just like nobody wants to be closed but we do want to commit them to take the next steps to purchase what we’re offering to get them where they want to be, right? It’s a commitment, right?
| 29:34 | So we talk about commitment questions. So I might tee that up after we went through like the Gap and we built from where they are now with some of our products and they’re also looking for more and where they want to be. So we’ve helped them find some problems we have. We might even ask us which part of what we went over today do you feel like it could help you the most? And we’re going to make that that’s kind of a generic committee question but depending on your industry we make that more specific to talk about that part. Okay, so the parts of which parts of what we cover today do you feel like we really help you the most?
| 30:05 | Well, I like this and I think this would do this and I think to do that okay. And then I might say so why do you OK, so which parts do you feel would help you the most? Like, oh, I think this, I think that. And then I might ask so do you feel like this? Could you feel like this aspect can really get you where you guys are wanting to go over the next quarter? Yes, we do. Why do you feel like it would, though? That’s an NPQ probing question, but we feel like it would because of A and B and C. All right.
| 30:32 | So when you get them to say tell you why they feel like it’s what they’re looking for, most importantly, they’re telling themselves that’s how you get somebody to persuade themselves, right. You’re not pushing them, you’re getting them to pull you in. And then I might say so that’s one commitment question. And I might say, well, John, I don’t really have anything else to go over with you. I mean, it looks like we covered the basis of what you were looking for so that you guys could X, Y, and Z repeat back what they said they wanted. Really, the next step would be is we would and you just tell them what the next steps would be.
| 31:02 | And then at the end of that, I said, Would that be appropriate or would that be appropriate? Or how do you want to proceed from here? Right, okay. Yeah, that would be appropriate. So it’s just basic commitment questions to get them to commit to take the next step. And that’s really the same as if you sold B to C and is a one call close, or if it’s a two call close, or if this is the first time you met the prospect. And let’s say you’ve done a demo because you sell SAS or whatever, and then you’ve done a proposal and you’re closing or committing them at the end, that’s really pretty much all the same, even if you’re selling to existing clients, for sure, that’s what we would say.
| 31:34 | I like that. And very consistent with the methodology on first meeting a new customer. That’s disarming here, getting the customer to open up, to share the process, the steps and indicate their comfort level with certain aspects. And certainly if they say A, B and C, this is what I really like, then you can amplify that. And if they bring out an objection on de NF, you can address it, but they are leading that conversation. X, Y and Z, how do you see this aspect you guys the most, though? So we already list like what they said they liked it for.
| 32:03 | But besides that, how do you see this benefiting you the most? Well, it would also benefit this and this and this and this. Because the more reasons the prospect tells you why they need to change is what’s happening is it’s building a bigger gap in their mind from where they are compared to where they want to be. And the bigger the gap is, the less objections you’re going to get. And if you do get an objection, it’s very easy to help them overcome it because they trust you more. There’s many more reasons, many more problems of why they feel like they need to make a change rather than just one reason, okay?
| 32:34 | So any time a prospect tells you a reason why they’re looking around, that’s usually just the surface of what’s really going on. There’s usually two or three or four other things behind that. And that’s what separates, you know, good salespeople from, like, the Grates is because the Grates know how to get them to go far below the surface and peel more layers of the onion off. Where the prospect doesn’t feel like you’re interrogating them by certain questions. They just feel like you’re concerned for them, like you have empathy for them. And when they feel that way, they’re like they’re just open to you because they trust you.
| 33:06 | There’s massive trust in the sales process. Trust is king in sales, not likability. I always hear this myth of like, oh, you got to get your prospects to like you. So sales people are always like, oh, did you see the game last night? And, oh, my gosh, and where do you live? And they talk about BS. It doesn’t move the sale forward, and the prospect knows what you’re doing. Oh, that comes from this book. I’m just looking at this the other day. It comes from how to win friends and how to win friends and Carnival.
| 33:36 | It’s a really great book, but one thing we should all understand that’s written in 1936, right? Okay. Buying behaviors were much, much different in 1936, okay? The phone was just out. People were answering cold calls because they couldn’t see who was calling. They weren’t used to people calling. It was a brand new thing. People were talking to salespeople all the time because that’s the only way that was, like, the bridge between the company and the consumer was used the salesperson. But now with the power of the Internet, especially social media, we live in a completely different age, right?
| 34:07 | Like, your prospects already know everything about you by simply doing a Google search. They know who your competitors are. They know who your price points are. They know if you got good reviews, bad reviews. They know all that. They’re armed with so much knowledge that they weren’t even armed with 15 to 20 years ago. So if we keep using techniques like prospects buy based on who they feel can get them the best result. Now, if they like you, that’s just a bonus. But they don’t just buy because they like you over somebody else who they feel can get them a better result, right?
| 34:36 | Like, you love Grandma, but if you’ve got a complete stranger that’s selling the same thing, and you feel that that complete stranger can get your result much higher than Grandma, who are you buying from? You’re not buying from Grandma, right? I mean, if that was true, nobody be buying anything from Amazon. They’d go down to their local store here with their neighbor and buy from them because they like their neighbor. But they’re buying from Amazon because they feel like Amazon gives them a much better result. Absolutely. No, it makes a lot of sense. So you just grabbed one of my favorite books and shared Carnegie’s thought there.
| 35:05 | And I think there are some things in there that are still worth the read. However, 1936, as I remember, also was probably during the Great Depression. So very different selling environment than we are and without social media, too. You’re going to be adding a new book to your bookshelf, one that is written by you so early next year, 2023, the new model of Selling to An Unsellable Generation is coming up. Share with the audience what your new effort is all about with Jerry Akoff. He owns a very large sales consulting firm on the East Coast called Delta Point.
| 35:35 | He’s written about five bestselling books. And we got together and we’re like, hey, let’s write this book. Let’s write this book to really help people. One of my biggest beefs with any book I’ve ever read on sales and I get why the author do it, I totally get it. But it’s like most of it’s just theory and it’s just like rehashed theory. It’s just like on page one, the theory will be talked about. And it’s kind of the same way on page 227, but they just spent in a different way and there’s not really any tactical training.
| 36:04 | And so you read the book and I thought, these are some really good ideas, but what do I say when the prospect says hello? Like, what do I do? That always bothered me as a salesperson? I’m like, we write this book. We have to write the theory. We have to get the prospects to understand how selling has changed. We have to get them to understand that. Here’s what’s going on in your prospects frame. Like the coauthor Jerry talks about, you have to stop acting like a seller and start thinking like a buyer. Right? Put yourself in the buyer’s shoes.
| 36:34 | Once you put yourself in the buyer’s shoes and you understand how they’re thinking, you can shift things around to really get how they’re thinking. And that helps the buyer feel like you understand their unique situation the most. And they’re always going to go with whoever they feel understands their unique situation the most, even if that company charges them or they feel like they can get a better result because they feel like you understand them over somebody else just trying to pitch them, right? So in that book, we talk about that, but then we break down the sales process from here’s what you need to ask, like here’s NPQ.
| 37:04 | These are called connecting questions. And connecting questions take the focus off you, put it on the prospect. Here’s situation questions. Situation questions help you and the prospect find out the real situation is here’s. Problem awareness questions. Here are some examples. How do you get the prospect to build a gap in their mind and find problems they didn’t know they had. Here’s tons of examples, and we go through the whole sales process here’s. Consequence questions. How do you ask them questions that get them to think of the consequences of what happens if they don’t do anything, if they stay in the status quo? Okay, so we really break that down, and that’s 75% of the book.
| 37:34 | That’s tactical skills. So the reader can take that and then like, hey, I can take some of these questions and apply my salesforce and then go make more sales today. Now, obviously, if they want more advanced training, they would get into our virtual training courses and our clients courses because of a book, you’re going to retain maybe, what, 5% of that, right? I think that’s what the experts say, but it’s a good starting point that really puts them on that path of really getting learning how to get the prospect to pull them in, learning how to work with techniques that work with human behavior rather than using techniques that actually work against human behavior.
| 38:07 | So that’ll be available. It’s available online presale right now they can get anywhere online, and then it will be in bookstores like Barnes and Noble and the Big book stores and airports, march 15, 2023, so right. And I did see you can preorder on Amazon and elsewhere. And so that’s fantastic. And I’m looking forward to getting the book and reading it in March as well. Jeremy, share with the audience, if you can, what’s the best place for folks to find you and to gain more insights and great advice like you shared today?
| 38:36 | Yeah, sure, we’ll give them some nibbles. We’ll give them some free resources to learn a little bit about us. So just have them they can join one of our free Facebook groups, sales Revolution Pro. Salesrevolution Pro, if you’ve got the link. Got about 470 people in there. Professional salespeople. B to B and B to C. Entrepreneurs, business owners. And right when they join the Facebook group, have them check their Facebook messenger. We’ll have somebody on our team message them over a free training called the Napkin 101 mini course.
| 39:07 | It’s a breakdown of NAPQ. Now, we didn’t have time to talk about it. Nepq stands for Neuro Emotional Persuasion Questioning. Okay? So it’s going to give them some questions. They can use this for any industry. We train 158 industries at this point. I just read an article a couple of months in Forbes. There’s actually only 158 industries. I did not know that. Now there are subsets, there are subsets of each industry. Gas and oil might have twelve subsets, right? But we’re in all those. So those questions work for any industry.
| 39:35 | And then we go live in that Facebook group three to four times a week. Different Q and a different, like, subject matter training. You know, give nibbles, then they want more advanced training like our clients are. All they have to do is call us email support messages in the Facebook group and they can always get on with the team member to go to different advanced training options. But we’ll give them some nibbles first so they can check it out. And for everyone listening out there, to have tailored training across multiple industries is a wonderful advantage.
| 40:05 | So what you’re getting with Jeremy’s products and insights is not just a cookie cutter one size fits all. You’re going to get some tailored and customized content for your industry, which is exactly one size fits all. It doesn’t necessarily translate from industry. Industry, right. Because that’s why you see salespeople that sell cars that maybe then switch to cyber security and they can’t figure it out because they’re like selling on personality selling cars. But when they get into like more big boy and girl sales, they just fall flat on their face because they don’t know how to navigate an organization.
| 40:36 | They don’t know what questions to ask to trigger engagement. So you have to be able to have a sales process that’s really duplicate of in any industry. Once you understand how to work with human behavior and you understand, here’s the problems my prospects have for my industry, here’s how we solve them. It’s easy to write sales structures around every industry. But if you don’t understand the core of that, the psychology behind why people make decisions, your personality selling, which is not going to translate most industries. Absolutely.
| 41:05 | Last area I wanted to probe with you is I’m very passionate to empower people to believe and understand that there’s a sales warrior within themselves. And if you’re interviewing for a job, there’s a set of sales skills you need there. If you’re going out on a date, arguably there’s a set of sales skills there in your personal life as well. In your opinion, how can people continue to refine and work on and empower that sales warrior within themselves? I think it’s just all about repetition.
| 41:32 | It’s like, you know, I always look what we always tell our clients. It’s just like if you’re a Hollywood actor, actress, like who’s your favorite actor? I’ll tell you, Leonardo, probably. I always think the department. Leonardo DiCaprio. Yeah, he’s awesome. So take him for example, like a George Clooney or anybody, right? Everything they say in their films is pretty much 100% scripted. But does it sound scripted to you? No, sounds very natural.
| 42:00 | In fact, when you’re watching Leo in those movies, you don’t even picture him as Leonardo the capital. You picture him as a character. He’s portraying that’s because he’s memorized his lines. He’s memorized the body language, he’s memorized the verbal cues, the verbal poses. Right. We were talking about politics before. Look at different politicians. They’re speaking behaviors and how they inspire people. Like I said, I’m just an independent. I just kind of vote for whoever I feel does the best. I don’t go down the party lines. But if you look like in comparison.
| 42:31 | Like with President Obama, he was very good at verbal pausing and verbal cues. So he would say something or ask a question and he would just stop for 3 seconds and people would be like on the edge of their seats, oh my gosh, what was going on? Now you look at President Biden, not so good on speaking, right? So he’s kind of like all over the place and everything. So you look at the different presence and even Trump kind of did some things good with that, but other things triggered resistance and stuff like that. But just verbal cues like that.
| 42:59 | So you look at actors and actresses and how they do it as a professional salesperson, that’s what you have to do. You have to memorize your lines. You have to make them natural. So even though you know what question you’re going to ask next, instead of just blurting it out, you look up and you say, okay, but can you walk me back for a second? When you were saying now I knew exactly what I was going to do there, but I looked up, when I look up to the side that somebody looks at me that makes them believe I’m thinking about what I’m asking. It’s not like scripted, right? Right.
| 43:29 | And when you’re going from question to question, a lot of people get in trouble with this. They sound like an FBI interrogator. Tell me about this. What about this? I’m curious about this. And the prospect is like, well, hey, enough with the questions, just tell me how much it’s going to be. But if you ask a question, if you ask a question and while they’re talking, you practice what are called verbal cues, just little things like this, right? Ah, okay, okay. But when you were saying and that verbal cue lets me bridge into the next question where it sounds natural.
| 44:00 | That’s what actors and actresses do when they’re talking, right? These verbal cues that allow them to go into the next question where the conversation sounds natural and that keeps your prospects engaged and that keeps them going. That causes them to go below the surface. So verbal cues, verbal pauses are extremely important. Dating, life, relationships, selling everything there is 100%, yeah, hey, that’s really interesting, share more with me. There’s an authenticity and genuineness that has to come with that because if you’re doing those verbal cues but they’re scripted, it’s not going to work.
| 44:33 | So if a customer says something interesting or you learn something new, oh wow, I never knew that before. That’s really interesting, share more with me. Customers will open up. People want to be teachers. They want to share. If they are getting that cue from you that you’re interested, engaged, they continue to go. Well, here’s another technique. Let’s say that the prospect, you get on with the prospect. Let’s say you’re on zoom like this and they’re kind of like a lay down sale and they’re really excited about possibly working with you or your products or services.
| 45:03 | And they kind of like start like almost telling you one way to get them to pull you even more is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on 1 second. You’re on page 15. I’m still on page three here, walk me back when you said. And that kind of pulls them back down and then they pull you back in. They’re like, oh, my gosh, he’s not trying to sell me something. So there’s little techniques you can do that just gets them to pull you in. Like, you know, you get on a phone call and let’s say the prospect asked you how you’re doing? Because sometimes prospects are like, yes, how are you doing today?
| 45:32 | Instead of saying like, oh, I’m doing really good, just drinking the coffee, working hard. It’s what most salespeople would say be like, just hanging out, being the boring guy. What about you? I’m sure you’re not boring. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. See, those are the little ways to loosen them up. Disarm, disarmament little techniques like that. Yeah. You brought up President Obama. I often refer people to go Google or YouTube. Ronald Reagan humor, just those three words and his humor was so disarming, was so welcoming.
| 46:04 | And there are many famous stories, but the one after the assassination attempt, he was shot, rolled into George Washington Hospital in DC. Looked up at the surgeon and before he was put under for the surgery said, I really hope you’re a Republican. Right? Yeah, it’s so true. He was a great example of disarming, right? So let’s say you have a reporter that just hates you rather than just fighting back at them where they’re just going to hate you even more and ask you even more crazy questions.
| 46:34 | Why not disarm them? Why not say, I just love your questions that you ask me? Do you get up in the morning, just write down these questions because you’re just trying to attack what’s going on over there, Bill? Just like little stuff like that, it loosens them up. Or the next time they’re like, hey, I might not agree with this politics, but he’s a good guy, he’s a funny guy, and it just loosens people up. If politicians really learned how to do that, their lives would be much less stressful. Let’s just put it that way. I think Jeremy, you and I can and our audience here can share a lot with politicians.
| 47:06 | The sales skills, the disarming skills, and really all the skills that you’ve shared today, really great insights. The audience is going to really gain a lot of value from it. Again, for all of you listening, sales revolution the Facebook group to go find the nibbles and the bites from Jeremy and the team and www.salesrevolution.pro and keep an eye open and go preorder his book. Coming up, the new model of Selling to An Unsellable Generation. You’re in Scottsdale.
| 47:34 | So I have to ask as a close here Phoenix, are you Phoenix Suns fan? I am, yeah. Our company, we have a suite up there, so I only go to probably like five or six games a year. I’m bad, but we have a lot of people. I’ll tell you what, if my Milwaukee Bucks and here’s Janice here, if my Milwaukee Bucks and the Suns, which they may be on a collision course to have a rematch of the 21 championship series, I’m a seasoned ticket holder here in Milwaukee, will have to do a back-to-back experience.
| 48:04 | If you invite me over there, I’m in. I’ll have you over to our suite that we have here. I’m a sunshine for sure when they’re good. When they’re not so good. I’m not from Arizona. I’m not from Arizona. So I’m like one of those, like just Kansas football. I’m a Kansas City Chiefs fan. That’s where I’m from, homes. It’s a good era for the Chiefs, good era for the sun and good era for salespeople as well. Jeremy, thanks so much for joining the Sales Warrior Within podcast. And I’m glad your voice made it all the way through strong. I made it through the sun’s finally going down at the very end of it.
| 48:34 | So if you’re watching this on here, I don’t look like St. Peter the purdy gates all white like the angel like that. It’s just the sun coming over a building right in the office because it’s early in the morning. I hope you enjoyed this high energy conversation with Jeremy Minor again. Check out his Sales Revolution Facebook group, bunch of nuggets tidbits, things to think about, things to get out there and do. Sales revolution. Pro that’s again. Salesrevolution.Pro is where you can find him.
| 49:04 | His new book is coming out, the new model of Selling to an Unsellable Generation. Check that out and preorder on Amazon. And also check out 7th Level and the great suite of training opportunities that Jeremy and his team is great. It doesn’t really matter what industry you’re in, they’ve probably got a training out there already for you. Remember, always be disarming. That’s a big takeaway that I had from this conversation instead of Always be closing, it’s not ABC, it’s Abd.
| 49:35 | And that’s what I’ve put into practice already and I think it’s already yielded some results. I just like the tone and the tenor of it because the moment, as Jeremy says, when customers hear you use the words of a salesperson, they start to go into that dark place. They start to withdraw a little bit from you. So instead of trying to push your way into their world, just be disarming. Be very authentic, genuine, and you’re going to find a lot of successful. Hope you enjoyed today’s Sales Warrior Within podcast.
| 50:04 | I sure did, and I look forward to talking with all of you soon. And in the meantime, and as always, my name. Is Andy Olen. Good selling, good leading and good living.